Countrystride

#135: Phoebe Smith – Love, loss and life on Britain's ancient paths

...in which Dave interviews adventurer, author and multi-award-winning photographer, presenter and broadcaster Phoebe Smith about journeys of self-discovery on the country's old ways.

Recorded live at Countrystride's end of summer gathering at Kelsick Grammar, we learn about the ancient practice – still banned in this country – of pilgrimage, and hear about the great emptiness Phoebe felt on a secular walk along the Camino de Santiago.

In a wide-ranging conversation centred around Phoebe's book Wayfarer: Love, loss and life on Britain's ancient paths, we consider what role walking plays in healing trauma; why slow ways have increasing appeal in a busy world; and the deep-level connections that get forged when we follow in the footsteps of our ancestors.

Never straying far from the Lake District, Phoebe reveals her favourite fells and wild camp locations; talks about drying knickers on a Kendal stove; and recalls the Christmas she spent in a gale atop Scafell Pike.

Arriving at our quickfire questions. we consider why National Parks are visited by so few young people; we learn why Phoebe's Lakeland hero is Mabel Barker... and we try (and fail) to get Phoebe to stop talking about Grasmere gingerbread.

• Wayfarer: Love, loss and life on Britain's ancient paths is available from all good bookshops.

• For all things Phoebe, see phoebe-smith.com 

#134: The Scafells – Hidden views and curious histories

...in which we ascend Moasdale from Cockley Beck in the company of author Guy Richardson to take a long view of the Scafell massif and its oft-overlooked history.

Under pristine skies we ascend the 'moss valley' on a long-abandoned turf-cutters' way to reach Moasdale Col and the Duddon/Esk watershed, where we are wowed by the Alpine panorama of England's highest peaks – a view that is surely one of Lakeland's finest and one which, remarkably, has rarely been captured by poet or painter.

In a wide-ranging discussion about the Scafells' neglected history, we identify the fells' first appearence on maps, and the changing names – the Pikes of Scawfell, Scawfell Pike, Scafell Pike, Sca Fell – that offer glimpses into the influence of guidebook writers and the early methods of OS surveyors.

Recalling Samuel Taylor Coleridge's infamous descent of Broad Stand (and the subsequent first climb of the accident blackspot by his farming hosts), we consider the great conservation battle to keep conifers from Great Moss; we learn about the madcap attempts to build a road over Sty Head; we reflect on the 'Great Gifts' that secured the heights of Eskdale and Borrowdale for the nation; and we attempt to settle one of the Lakes' enduring debates: is it Scafell or Scawfell?.

• For more information about Guy's book The Scafells : A Grand Tour and a peek inside see: www.scafells.uk

• The book is also available from all good bookshops (Cumbrian ones are best!).

#133: Whitehaven - A remarkable history

...in which we tour the west coast town of Whitehaven in the company of Blue Badge guide and historic buildings expert Alexandra Fairclough. From the heart of the bustling harbour, we paint a picture of the settlement's early history – of a remote fishing village set around a tidal river – before coal transformed its fortunes forever. As the Lowther family entered the story, the town's wealth and population multiplied; coal and ship-building transforming the sheltered 'haven' into England's second largest port, trade tethered to the notorious 'Triangular Trade'. Leaving the harbour, we visit Whitehaven's informal 'old town', then proceed to the remarkable 'grid-iron' planned streets that introduced Grand Tour designs to Georgian Cumberland, and which inspired similar layouts in New York City. Admiring designed 'vistas', a bounty of listed buildings – more per quare mile than in any other UK town – and rare one-time warehouses, we discuss the end of many eras, and reflect on the 'gem' town of today.

• Alex can be found at https://linktr.ee/Alexatourguide

#132: Cumbria – 1,000 years of maps

...in which we tell the 1,000-year story of cartography in the historic counties of Cumberland, Westmorland and Lancashire with author, academic and cartophile Bill Shannon.

When does the name 'Cumbria' first appear on a map? Who were the men – entrepreneurs, oddballs, fraudsters and visionaries – who developed the skills of surveying and map-making over generations, often for scant financial rewards? How did the remarkable Christopher Saxton undertake the first county surveys – to make the definitive maps of England that were still being used two centuries later? When were the first scientific surveys carried out, and what role did the Ordnance Survey play in popularing maps for the 'everyman'?

In this amiable chat covering ten centuries of map-making, we talk triangulation and tourism; contours and cartouches; and nymphs, monks and memories of map-reading on a misty Blencathra.

• Bill is on Twitter/X at https://x.com/BillShannon19

• You can find out more about / buy Bill's book at https://www.inspiredbylakeland.co.uk/products/cumbria-1-000-years-of-maps

• To view some of Bill's favourite maps, head over to our sister site, Hefted: https://hefted.substack.com/p/six-iconic-maps-of-cumbria

#131: The Atlantic rainforests of Borrowdale

...in which we stride out from Seatoller in the company of conservationist and lichenologist April Windle to explore the Celtic woodlands of Borrowdale and celebrate the designation of a new 721-hectare (1,782-acre) National Nature Reserve in the valley.

Immersing ourselves in the damp and shady confines of an oakwood, and tantalised by a tapestry of ferns, mosses, liverworts and lichens, we consider the climatic conditions – wet and mild – that sustain these rare pockets of western wild-wood. Pushing deeper up-dale we discover two more woodland habitats: a remarkable hillside of ash pollards and a precipitous hanging hazelwood.

Pausing to admire 'Tumbling Kittens' and 'Blackberries in Custard', we reflect on the complex management needs of these threatened rainforests and learn why bracken is no barrier to natural regeneration, why brambles cannot be left unchecked, and why livestock exclosure does not make for healthy woods.

Backtracking to the valley bottom, we learn about the National Trust's largest ever 'translocation' drive and lament the loss of one of Lakeland's most loved trees; we mull the benefits of slow walking – and a £2.50 hand lens; and we celebrate Cumbria's reputation as a hotbed of conservationism.

• April can be found on X at x.com/aprilwindle?lang=en and on Instagram at instagram.com/aprilwindle.nature/

• To learn more about the lichens of Borrowdale, see the Lichen Society's interactive map at https://britishlichensociety.org.uk/maps/all-species

#130: Goldscope – The wealth of Newlands

...in which we journey deep into Newlands to tell the remarkable story of Elizabethen copper mining, and the part it played in making Keswick the birthplace of modernity.

Leaving Little Town in the company of the inimitable Mark Hatton, we ascend the flanks of Hindscarth, and rewind time to the 1560s, to when England's war footing meant a domestic supply of copper was a matter of national security.

Entering the hand-picked addit that drives through Scope End, we learn about the pioneering German miners who – in the year of Shakespeare's birth – brought their skills to a backwater Lake District valley; and we seek out one of the most audacious engineering feats of its age: a stream, diverted between valleys through the mountain to power an underground waterwheel.

Suitably wowed, we trace the copper ore's ancient route – above the marshy bottoms of Newlands into Keswick – to reflect on the social impacts of an immigrant population, and the ensuing violence... and baby boom.

Arriving by the all-but-ignored former smelter site at Brigham (below the A66 flyover), we discover old tunnels and leats that channeled water to the most important industrial site of its age.

As we digest a lost Lake District story, we consider the fate of the Germans who stayed, and the legacy of an industry that shaped national economics, politics, law... and plenty of future Keswickians.

• Mark is on X at https://x.com/thehatton

#129: Loughrigg Fell: Tales of a small mountain

…in which we climb one of the Lake District's most popular heights, Loughrigg Fell, to celebrate the launch of a new book, Loughrigg: Tales of a small mountain. In the company of author Eileen Jones and botanist Pete Martin, we consider why this rambling maze of a fell – the classic 'first and last hill’ – holds such a special place in so many people's hearts. Arriving at sequestered Lily Tarn, we survey the rich diversity of hillside flora, from bog asphodel and meadowsweet to grass-of-parnassus and bogbean. Weaving along the ever-popular spine path – past 'Kite Gnoll', 'The Sometimes Pond’ and 'The Knobbly-Bobblies' – we reflect on how memories are grafted onto hills, and how landscapes become personal: From the summit, with its repaired – if diminished – trig point (just the right height to perch a G&T) we discuss the changing relationship with ‘local’ that emerged during Covid, before backtracking past the former Ambleside Golf Course, where Eileen recalls ‘vapours’ on Striding Edge, picks Les Mis as a walking soundtrack… and details an unlikely case of happily-ever-after wife swapping at Pine Rigg.

• Loughrigg: Tales of a small mountain, by Eileen Jones, is available from Gritstone Publishing:  https://gritstonecoop.co.uk/product/loughrigg-by-eileen-jones/

• Work to nurture the trees on Loughrigg is being undertaken by Ambleside Action for a Future, one of our favourite Lakes charities: . https://aafaf.uk/index.html

#128: The lost history of Brampton coal

…in which we head to the far northeast of Cumbria to explore the once thriving North Pennines coal industry in the company of ex-pitman Clive Seal. Rewinding to the 1240s, we unearth the first records of coal production in the area – supplying the monks of Lanercost - and discuss the border raids that threatened the cottage-style industry all the way into the 1600s. In the Midgeholme Bottoms – now the domain of curlew and oyster catcher – we evoke the expanded 17th century workings of horse gins, ’cinders’, waterwheels, smitihies and winding shafts. Taking a retrospective view of Clive’s career, and the ‘like it or loathe it’ reality of life on the coal face, we learn how pitmen bore straight tunnels and mined ‘black gold’ using lime and later gunpowder. Proceeding into the 19th century, we arrive at the jewel in the crown of the Brampton coalfield, the King Pit, where hundreds worked, swelling the villages of Midgeholme, Hallbankgate and Halton Lea Gate. Below abandoned workings, we come upon Lord Carlisle’s private railway – one of the first in the country – along which Stephenson’s Rocket reached a rumoured 60mph, and coal was transported via Port Carlisle to Glasgow and Nova Scotia. Finally, we learn about the slow-motion tragedy of moss encroachment that took three men’s lives, and heralded the end of an era.

#127: Matt Staniek: Saving Windermere

...in which we stride out from Waterhead in the company of ecologist and Save Windermere campaigner Matt Staniek. In the vibrant watermeadows that flank the River Rothay we dig into local lad Matt's early life – where hedgehogs were nursed in the family home and Matt took nature walks with his grandmother. Fast-forwarding to the car crash that broke his neck, we learn about Matt's recuperative trips to Borrans Park, where the north shores of Windermere became a place of healing. Delving into the science of sewage, we consider the contributions that farming and private treatment plants make to nutrient levels in Windermere, dwarfed by the release – legal and illegal – of sewage by United Utilities. Subjecting Matt to our quickfire questions, we hear about his love of Side Pike and Windermere's Homeground; of the wonders of unpolluted becks; and of the Viking burial he imagines as a send-off, alongside the bronze toilet epitaph he wants erected outside UU's Windermere office. Detailing how sewage could be banished from Windermere for good, we ask Matt what he does on days off... and when his remarkable campaign will come to an end.

• Matt can be found on X at x.com/MattStaniek and on Instagram at Instagram.com/mattstaniek/?hl=en

• Save Windermere can be found at savewindermere.com

• The March to Save Windermere is held on 29 June. Mark and Dave will be there !

• For those interested in learning more about Section 101A of the Water Act – that states "sewerage undertakers have a duty to provide new public sewers where specific criteria are met" – it can be found here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/56/section/101A#:~:text=(1)Without%20prejudice%20to%20section,(2)%20below%20are%20satisfied.

#126: Pubs of Cumbria: When communities save their pubs

...in which, standing in for Mark and Dave, BBC Cumbria's Nick Brownlee takes a seat at the bar to discuss the highs, lows and daily realities of operating a community pub. In a hospitality sector beset by staff shortages, rising costs and closures, Cumbria is home to a handful of thriving pubs that have been acquired by their communities. Nick speaks with Phil Sweetland from the Mardale Inn, Bampton, and Grizedale Arts CEO Adam Sutherland from the Farmer's Arms, Lowick, about each pub's journey – from abandonment by big breweries, through community fundraising to reopening. They discuss the importance of pubs to rural communities; the value of activities that interact with the pub; the merits of organic growth as a community business finds its feet; and the "hard graft" management models that ensure sustainable growth. Finally, Adam and Phil namecheck their favourite Cumbrian hostelries – with shout outs to the Kirkstile Inn, The Queen's Head, The Blacksmith's Arms, The Butchers Arms and the ODG – and consider the question: what makes the perfect pub?

• The Mardale Inn is at themardaleinn.com/?lightbox=dataItem-lgjoq8ui

• The Farmer's Arms is at lakedistrictfarmersarms.com

#125: Nature friendly farming champion: James Robinson from Strickley

...in which, guest presenting for Mark and Dave, Radio 4's Caz Graham dons her boots for a day on the farm with organic dairy farmer, Chair of the Nature Friendly Farming Network and one of Cumbria's farming heroes, James Robinson. In a wide-ranging conversation with fifth-generation farmer 'James from Strickley' – in the shadow of The Helm – Caz and James delve deep into the world of regenerative farming, talk new life in a rewiggled Saint Sunday's Beck and discuss the beauty, utlity and nature benefits – 98 bird species! – of James' beloved laid hedges, as articulated by visting poet and beatboxer Testament. Looking back at old farm diaries, Caz is wowed by historic entries that juxtapose the whitewashing of cattle shippons with a collapsing world order. Surveying a farmed landscape with views to Morecambe Bay, James reflects on the John Marsden adage that you should 'Live as though you’ll die tomorrow, but farm as though you’ll live forever', and – following an invite to discuss farming at Number 10 – calls for ministers to engage in joined-up thinking that aligns farming and food production with health, access to the countryside, education and social care.

• James can be found at: x.com/JRfromStrickley

• Strickley's website is at visitmyfarm.com

• ‘The Lig’ by Testament comes courtesy of We Feed The UK – a national arts project pairing award-winning photographers and poets with the UK’s most inspiring regenerative farmers and food producers. See wefeedtheuk.org for more information

• Caz can be found at x.com/CazGraham1